This is by all means not a suicide note or I am not an emo kid. I should prolly give you some background before I present my questions.
This past weekend, my hallmate from my freshmen year killed himself in a cemetary. He lit himself on fire and took his own life. He was a christian, an athlete, high school valedictorian, and etc.
I didn't know him on a very deep level but I have talked to him before and would often enjoy playing Wii or bothering him while he played a game I've never seen before.
Ok that was a very short summary of the background. Now, I want to ask anyone willing to respond. When do you think it'd be okay to suicide? (like if you were being tortured... is it ok?) Do you believe everyone thinks about taking his/her own life the same amount? (does it differ depending on social status, race, religion, or etc.?) And what your opinion is of suicide? (such as religious views or personal views)
I know this is a very somber topic, but I felt like I needed another's opinion about it. Plus, if anyone wants to just give an opinion without answering a question, I welcome it happily.
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Death is a strange beast, and I think most humans don't like to think about it very much. It's very hard to come to terms with the idea that one day, you'll no longer be on the Earth.
I believe suicide is acceptable when:
1. You die fighting for what you believe in. A good example is Vietnamese monks lighting themselves on fire to protest the US's involvement in the Vietnam War, and the hunger strikes of Tiananmen Square.
2. You die to save the lives of those around you, i.e. jumping on a grenade (during the Vietnam War).
3. Life has become so unbearable that death would be preferable. This includes terminally ill patients and spies that are about to be captured and tortured.
Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
I don't think number is a good reason to die. There are always other ways in achieving the points you are trying to make. However, the 2nd and 3rd option are good answers.
I'm really sorry to hear that Andrew.
Hm, I will agree with Jake that often, suicide is not the best way to achieve something you believe in, because we have so much talent/resources that we can make bigger impacts by staying alive. So only when it is THE best method (remember that it's comparing one action against the sum of the influences you can make for the rest of your life), that you can commit suicide.
For me, I have thought about suicide on two levels. The first is the intellectual level...kinda like this post...questions like if I died when I was happiest, would that be a lot better than when I was sad.
The second is about actually committing suicide. I considered the idea for a while because of the pressures I put on myself and others on me. I do not think I was close to doing it, however, I think that requires another big leap between contemplating about doing it, and actually carrying through.
I'd also like to make a claim that maybe people in whom great pressure is put to achieve something might have a higher rate of suicide. My obvious examples are asians. When parents try and live through you and push you very hard, it becomes a way of relieving pressure and (in the midst of anger) telling somebody that it is your life. Examples would be students who kill themselves after doing poorly on college entrance exams in Asia...due to high amounts of pressure. A person who has nobody pressuring him to achieve will just turn to living for himself...not commit suicide.
o and i think emotional swings are not a valid reason for suicide at any time. You cannot say that somebody made you so angry that you committed suicide.
This is because when we take a step back from a micro-view of life, people's emotions will go up and down around an average. For some people this average will be in the happy/content territory while others it's in the sad/angry one. As a member of human society, you cannot simply say that you're cleared to commit suicide because you are going to be in the sad/angry territory more than happy (this also depends on how much you value happiness...for some one moment of happiness is worth a sad week). Instead, by killing yourself, the total change in happiness in the world has to go up (so the happiness of everybody around you). I know very few cases of this actually being fulfilled, but one would be Hitler. Nobody would tell Hitler that it was wrong for him to commit suicide.
There is also one other exception: when you cannot control your thinking (illness being the reason I think of most).
Note that if you're ever considering suicide and you sit down to figure out delta happiness in the world due to your action...you won't have time for suicide =P.
Most people don't realize that they actually have agency in their lives and that they can solve their problems (wow! what a crazy idea!)
Other times, they just overreact to and feel overwhelmed by life's pressures.
But, they don't realize that EVERYONE has problems. But, why is it that some can push through even the greatest of tribulations while others kill themselves over frivolous things such as a breakup or a rejection letter from a certain college
The point is, life is full of stresses. You just need to know how to handle them (that's the secret to happiness; it's not much of secret).
Sucicide is an easy way to solve your problems. That's why society looks down upon the act as shameful and cowardly.
The only thing that legitimizes it is Kevin's second example, if it can save other lives.
To us now we think that taking our lives over a problem seems too cowardly, but what about at that time? We won't be able to think as rationally about our choices - because if we did I'm sure we'd seek help.
But yes, I think the only time suicide would be acceptable is if it will be able to save the lives of others or death is really a better choice, such as terminally ill patients.
However, I think that to an extent, there is a certain bravery for actually taking your life. Maybe I'm just a coward, but to be able to sit there and understand that there'll be no turning back scares me; it'll be hard to pull the trigger.
Then again, you could argue that those who are depressed are not able to fully apprehend what they are going to do anyways.
hmm, i dunno about you guys, but when the zealots say "my life for aiur" i always thought they were noble men. especially when u use them as zealot bombs. 100 can easily = 600 minerals + 200 gas
I don't believe in afterlife, so whatever matters to you in your life ends when you die. With that being said, I believe we have the right to choose how we want to die. (give me freedom or give me death right? =p) As long as your reason is matters to you and you alone. It's foolish to kill yourself to prove to someone else your belief. Once you die, you out of the game, doesn't matter what other thinks after your death. And the worst part, you won't be here to say "OWNED" even if you proved your point.
This applies to the US only. Maybe others, maybe not.
Economically, young suicide is a terrible thing. Young people are a big drain on society until they start working. Think of all the taxpayer money that goes into giving them skills necessary for life. Not backed up by statistics, but I feel like most of those suicides can be avoided (i.e. it's temporary depression, a set-back in life). Young people have a lot ahead of them, and even spending median income (50k) times how many years of working they might have left (65 - 24 = 41) = $2,050,000 would probably result in a net benefit to GDP. Not saying that we should give them money, but saying that helping them (even at ridiculously high costs) is still a net boost to America. Oh yeah, and suicides added up together is most certainly a significant effect on potential GDP. Is this a ridiculous argument? ...perhaps.
I have a friend how believes that young suicide is never ok for the economic reason. While I want to disagree with him because it sounds coldhearted to me, I gotta say that he's got a point. A nation is strong because of its people. Young suicide is just such a waste of potential.
I'm a big fan of "you belong to you, you can do what you want with your body as long as it doesn't harm others," but any action you take Will affect others. And I don't just mean economically and stuff. You know, the average suicide affects 6 people intimately. Sucks for their family/friends.
Interestingly enough, Asians have a low rate of suicide in America. That's probably because the Asians in America tend to be well off while the Asians in Asia....not so much.
When is it ok to suicide? Death as a physical painkiller I can agree with (unless that pain is treatable, curable, etc). Death as an emotional painkiller...that's hard to say. I'd like to say no, it's not ok? Death to save others...gosh, how can I argue against such a noble ideal?
All statistics from American Association of Suicidology & Wikipedia =)
Thank you everyone for you input. I saw through many perspectives that I haven't seen through before. Like... for some reason in my mind I never thought of taking your life for another as suicide... but when I think about it... technically it is suicide. The Idea Shop gets another star on the refrigerator. =P
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