Well... this all spurred with my roommate telling me the school is offering rides to the Inauguration. And I said that it'll prolly be boring... who would want to go.
He was absolutely dumbfounded. Telling me how I don't get it and that i'm being absolutely ignorant to how monumental the new president is. (He is white btw... from a majority white small town in Pennsylvania... dunno if that'll effect your opinion or anything)
I was confused at this statement. I told him that I wasn't into politics and do not care about it. He goes into a tangent about how I am a minority and how this new president should be a huge step for the country. Telling me... now people (minorities) can truly mean it when they tell their children that they can be anything they want to be. So I should be joyful in this event...
I told him... yes, he is the first African-American President of the United States... but hes gonna run the country like hes any ole democrat... so I do not see it being that important to me. If there was a white obama... hes gonna run the country the same way obama is gonna run the country... and isn't the job he runs more important than his race... that's what I think about when Obama becomes president.
This was my thought process during the discussion. But he still called me being ignorant and tryin to ignore the fact that he's African-American. Telling me how it should be more important to me than him cuz I'm a minority.
It's just something I don't worry about when I think of things... and I thought the country was in the same boat.... perhaps I'm being idealistic? or perhaps ignorant? What do you guys think? Do you still consider race to be a big factor in decisions? Any other thoughts?
PS - I gave him the argument that the country has progressed for quite some time in this area... it's just now there's some proof of it. Either way... I still consider the progress itself more important than the proof cuz my own thoughts display the progress. And it's good enough for me. It wasn't enough for him.
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The election of Obama IS monumental.
You're not being idealistic, you're being color-blind. The fact of the matter is that up until 35 years ago or so, minorities were systematically being oppressed by the ACTUAL AMERICAN SYSTEM. Ignoring the ordinary racism and prejudice that existed in daily life (and still exists today), the vast majority of American colleges didn't accept non-whites, a large amount of restaurants, cafes, parks, and even public bathrooms were white-only. Public schools were designated as white-only.
I agree with your core beliefs, that race "shouldn't" be a factor in anything. However, when we minorities are specifically persecuted for the color of our skin, it's not wrong for us to stick together and help each other out.
Of course racism still exists. But it's dying out, and the election of Obama is one more nail in the coffin.
Cool picture:
http://www.coolhunting.com/images/-3.jpg
I'm not sure what you mean about being color-blind... but in any case. I'm saying yes... minorities were oppressed 35 years ago... so wasn't the change that happened 35 years ago monumental? Since then there have been CEO's and senators and etc. in every race... we don't really consider any of those monumental? Wat difference is it for a president?
I understand it... I just don't feel it's that revolutionary. Obama won because of his views and platforms... and that's all I'm worried about for a president.
Well I think you can consider the election a monumental event symbolically without considering it a revolutionary event politically. But yes, it is monumentally symbolic. "Since then there have been CEO's and senators and etc. in every race... we don't really consider any of those monumental?" Of course we consider them important, but look at the ratio of minorities in Congress to whites in Congress. Simple mathematics shows that those positions are held more often by whites than by minorities. Also, while those jobs are certainly important, up to this point there have been NO minorities elected president of the United States of America. One could argue that the President has a lot more responsibility than Senators of CEOs. Also, this shows that yes, it is possible for someone to be a minority and get elected into one of the highest seats of power in the US.
Also, you don't have to look back 35 years to see the effects of racism and race relations in the US. Haven't you ever heard of the boycott of Korean stores in the early 90's? How about the riots that erupted with the acquittal of the policemen who allegedly beat Rodney King to death? Why were the angry masses looting Korean stores at that point? Maybe because the two races were being played against each other by the predominantly white media.
I could go on and on in this vein, but the point is that this is an event that is monumental, not necessarily because of political changes, but because of social and racial changes.
I think it is monumental, only if we consider it a "monument" to the change that has occured over the last few decades. Obama's election is meaningful because it is so meaningless- it is evidence of change that has already occured (i.e. people are able to vote colorblind).
Take as an example, an archer in the olympics. Let's say you are the best archer in the world, you've worked hard your whole life to become what you are (the best archer in the world) and now its the final shot at the olympics and all you need is to hit the target.
Does it really matter if you hit the target? I don't think so. I think you could miss, and still be the best archer in the world. Is it nice to have that symbol of winning olympic gold? yes, it is.
Is that final shot more valuable than all the shots taken up to that point? No, because those shots are what got you to be the best archer in the first place.
Does it matter that Obama is black and was elected president? No. Is it a nice monument to changing attitudes in America? Yes.
This is clearly an issue of values.
Much of America has felt the effects of Bush's failed presidency. To them, Obama does not only represent the amends to this past failure, but reparations to the era of slavery and prejudice as well. Not to mention, who would have thought Obama could beat all the odds, beat the "evitable" Hillary Clinton?
You value a president for his abilities, and not his race. That's clearly respectable and where we as a nation SHOULD be right now. But we are not. We have stood divided for the past 8 years. But just look at the situation under the context of the present, and understand how these people, having endured the isolation and belittlement of the rest of the world, feel and crave a fundamental change to the way things are done. Obama's win, does just that, and the historical and racial context under which he could become victorious makes the whole story particularly compelling.
If you cannot come to appreciate this one truth, at least get a taste of it, then I think it will be difficult for you to fully fathom.
I like seagull's analogy... it correctly portrays how i think about this event.
But I'm glad to see people think differently. It's hard to see the world from different perspectives when I am just one person.
Hopefully the conversation spurs on. I welcome it.
Seagull, your analogy is fundamentally wrong. Racism is not over in America. It's far from over.
Obama's election is significant in that he won in spite of racism . This is more like when the Olympics were held in Germany in the 1930s and the black guy won, proving Hitler's theories wrong.
Obama was able to win despite racism because racism is against groups and tolerance is for individuals. People who hold negative stereotypes of black people as lazy, fried chicken and watermelon eating, still like Wayne Brady, Will Smith, Al Roker, and Dave Chappelle.
Obama is much more like a Will Smith than a Jesse Jackson. And I'm sure even members of the KKK enjoy Will Smith's movies.
What I'm saying is: lots of people would be opposed to the "generic black man" marrying their daughter, but they'll make an exception if it's Will Smith.
Basically, lots of people are opposed to the "generic black man" being president, but they're willing to make an exception for Barack Obama.
You'll know when racism is over when a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton - type person is elected president.
so are you trying to say... that its not monumental? cuz thats wat it sounds like near the end of your comment... i'm just asking btw
Seagull is saying the election isn't monumental. I'm saying it definitely is, because he beat all the odds, and managed to overcome racism as well.
In other words, Obama's election is definitely NOT meaningless.
hotlikeatoaster, i want to just clarify what I was saying. I don't think that racism in America is over. I do believe, and I think this is the point we disagree on, that Obama's election is evidence of a significant marginalization of racism in America. I don't think that Obama's election caused racism to be marginalized, I think marginalized racism allowed Obama to be elected.
For example (taken from wikipedia on faithless electors):
1836 election: The Democratic Party nominated Richard M. Johnson of Kentucky as their vice presidential candidate. The 23 electors from Virginia refused to support Johnson with their votes upon learning of the allegation that he had lived with an African-American woman. There was no majority in the Electoral College and the decision was deferred to the Senate, which supported Johnson as the Vice President.
And that was just an allegation that he had lived with a black woman! I don't think we will see any electors change their vote Wednesday because Obama is black.
If "the black guy" had tripped and fallen at the start of the race at the Nazi olympics, would Hitler's theory be any less wrong? No. Is it still a significant symbol that he did in fact win? Yes.
Before you read on, I liked the post. I just felt it necessary to comment on the last bit.
"You'll know when racism is over when a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton - type person is elected president."
I'd never vote for these two or anyone like them. They like to stir up the fish bowl just as all the debris is about to settle. They're so confrontational about race that they would never lead to peace.
hmm you know, I think A.Kim's point of view is actually more "Monumental" than Ktao's. The fact that many people no longer think it's monumental for a minority to achieve the most powerful position in a world that was once dominated by Whites is the most incredible thing of all. A.Kim is simply disinterested because he believes it was bound to happen given the existing opportunities for minorities and hence has truly embraced the "color-blind/color-equal" stance that KTao was talking about. Ktao's view is simply looking backward and saying that "Wow...look at how far we've come". However, while it is true that we have come a far way in terms of equal opportunities, it's not correct to say that Obama "beat the odds". The conditions were already present for him to win, he didn't make America:
1.) Change its views on the differences in races/racism
2.) Hate Bush and welcome big change
3.) Have a bad economy
All he did was capitalize on those mistakes as any good politician would. Therefore, I too believe that while a black man being elected to Presidency in the US is a significant landmark, it is marking a monumental event THAT ALREADY HAPPENED. The color-indifferent stance of so many people now made today's situation a lot easier for a minority to win than the situation 30 years ago. So no longer were the odds stacked against him, hence the non-monumental thought towards this event.
But there are obviously others who believe that THIS one event has changed their lives fundamentally (telling your kids as minorities they can be anything they want). While I don't believe this to be the case, it is why Obama won. People hated Bush and wanted change. Yet those who believed a minority in office was still something long in the odds fought hard for Obama...not realizing that nobody was opposing them because of race anymore.
I think I should just have sopholightning (joey?) do like a follow-up to every one of my posts. He explains what I see better than i Do.
"However, while it is true that we have come a far way in terms of equal opportunities, it's not correct to say that Obama "beat the odds". The conditions were already present for him to win..."
Exactly. thats why I dont see it as monumental as people make it to be. He won because he had something more enticing to offer to the US. He did not win because he is african-american.
On the other hand, I would definitely agree with someone saying, "it's so monumental that racism has decreased so much over the years" or if Obama won 30 years ago.
Race just didn't affect how I viewed the election at all. So I assumed other people were in the same boat. Thats why I was somewhat shocked by my roommate's statements.
glad i understood you there Andrew =P
Joey and Andrew, maybe you two have just been way too insulated from the world or something? Or maybe you've just been really lucky? If you think racism's over and irrelevant, there's nothing I can really say to you to change your mind. But let me tell you about what I know about racism.
To me, racism deeply affected me growing up. My 7th grade science teacher once talked about scientifically how and why "all Chinese people looked the same," in front of the whole class. Growing up as the only asian kid in my whole elementary school in Kansas, people treat you differently. People don't really trust you as much. My best friends growing up would laugh at my parents funny accents and I'd always be embarrassed by them.
Racism is not just "discrimination based on skin color." Racism is when you even hate yourself for your skin color, and other physical and cultural differences. Racism is when you've had to play Uncle Tom quite a few times yourself, to get what you want. Racism is always being the outsider. Racism is never fitting in with the other kids.
Racism is what other people do to you, but mostly it becomes a mental prison that you put yourself in. If you've never felt that self-loathing, you've never felt real racism.
Also, I didn't say that Obama beat the odds. I just said that racism still matters. But Obama transcends race, just like Will Smith and Wayne Brady and Kobe Bryant transcend race. Obama simply doesn't play the racial game. If he did, he would have lost flat out.
Carter, what I meant with the Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson examples were to point to a couple of people that really relish in their racial identity. They really like to point out the fact that they're black and oppressed. In other words, they're not color-neutral people, like Will Smith.
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